Urban ESTP ChlorSan development
Having met up with some old childhood friends prompted me to articulate my theory on what is generally recognized as one of the common types in the African American community, ESTP.
One person came up from Atlanta to visit another, who’s the owner of a bed and breakfast in Harlem (in a large brownstone).
The visitor I always thought was Melancholy, but as a school teacher, had taken the MBTI and came out ENTJ. I couldn’t believe it, but then spending the afternoon with her (including going to Macy’s and Times Sq. a couple of days before New Year’s), I could pick up very subtle “Choleric” vibes. She is most likely a Phlegmatic Choleric (which has more moderate expressiveness), perhaps in both Inclusion and Control.
(She did seem to show some interest in the temperament discussion, which I find N’s are more likely to do).
The hostess, I had long thought of as an ESTP “Chlor-San”. She had just retired as a cop. (Originally, when first learning about APS and trying to figure everyone I knew, I had thought ENTP SanChlor, but she clearly fits Arno’s description of “being bright and friendly like a Sanguine [in Inclusion]” but having more of a “don’t call me; I’ll call you” mindset. Perhaps Choleric Phlegmatic in Inclusion, at least).
At our block reunion two years earlier, she clearly looked Choleric, like motivating people to participate in the dancing and other activities. (She said something about identifying as Melancholy when I described the temperaments, and that could be in Affection. She followed the discussion much further than I ever expected, but at this age, the inferior function should figure in making us look at the opposite preference more).
So this also got me thinking about another, slightly older female on the block, who initially was less friendly (to me at least), and more brusque in personality. In addition to a similar person at my old job. My second cousin in Atlanta also fits the type. I always thought he was fun, though when younger, he was very scary, with his rough “horseplay”.
They are the picture of “normal” and “popular” in the urban social setting. Very expressive and aggressive personalities, with the b&b owner being on the more “classy” and “feminine” end of the type (like Rachel Ray, who also fits the type), yet having a bit of a tough streak. (My mother couldn’t believe she would become a cop, but it seemed natural to me! The first time I saw her she was making friends with my ENTJ first cousin who was visiting when we were 8 ⦅not having moved onto the block yet⦆. They were talking about how they fight, which included biting, which I knew my cousin did. So they seemed similar to each other, though the other girl seemed to have a bit more of a “lightness” to her personality, which I identify as being a P type, and having some Sanguine mixed in with the Choleric, in contrast to my serious J-driven pure Choleric cousin).
Yet if these people are really ESTP’s, then they share the last two letters with me, INTP, which indicates a preference for introverted Thinking, which as my dominant, seems to make me stand out so much from what’s normal. So could such people really prefer this function?
So here I break down how I believe it fits their personality.
Choleric in Inclusion – Sanguine in Control (Initiator – Artisan “Promoter”) ESTP
High expressed Inclusion indicates Extraversion
Expressed and wanted Control both high indicates
1) Sensation (S) is preferred (since eC=wC), and
2) function is also extraverted (since eC=wC=”high”)
and thus a Perceiving (P) type. (And of course, is also dominant: E).
Low wanted Inclusion leaves us with a Thinking preference, which is the only remaining dichotomy, and the one that would indicate a low responsive score. For S’s, it’s connected with Inclusion or Interaction Style. (The method here is based on “type binary”: https://erictb.wordpress.com/2013/06/04/type-as-binary-code).
It thus defaults to being auxiliary and introverted.
Introverted Thinking (Ti) is sort of the “nerd” function, judging everything by an internal technical standard rather than external conventions of efficiency.
In a tough inner city environment (including often poor education; I would say mediocre at our school), this functional perspective generally is not encouraged or nurtured. In addition to the dominant preference of the environment being introverted Sensing with extraverted Thinking (STJ). The motto of the streets being “ya gotta do what ya gotta do” (externally based logical decisions informed by internal storehouse of facts).
So Ti is basically suppressed somewhat, and in addition to what they are left with being leading with Se. This will be the flipside of the STJ perspective just mentioned: internal logic informed by external “emergent” facts. They can adapt to this “ya gotta do what ya gotta do” mindset in a sort of opposite way, where it will likely be more about fun and physical activity, as well as more serious stuff like fighting and acting tough.
In conjunction with this, what also ends up being turned to is tertiary extraverted Feeling. Especially for females.
So they will be very social creatures, with no time for any heady logical discussion. I have found that they may be the biggest scoffers of the things of Ti (what Jung called “Thinking for its own sake”), and the stereotypical “bully” in the playground. Like the older girl on my block, who used to mock my technical “factoid” dispensing by asking “how many nuts and bolts does a 747 have?” (I used to respond “they don’t use nuts and bolts, they use rivets!” and later wanted to change that to “welding”). She also called me “brainiac”, which I think was more of an insult back then.
On one hand, I had to wonder if maybe this was an EFP manifesting “Trickster Ti” (where the things of Ti would supposedly be all a big joke to them). But she was way too “directive”; being a definite, almost stereotypical or definitive Choleric in Inclusion or “In Charge”. (EFP’s are the most Sanguine).
This type is much less approachable or friendly to just anyone than the pure Sanguine ESFP, yet is just as much a “party person”, and into physical activities such as dancing, and thus fits Keirsey’s ESTP description “the lights come on, the music plays and the games begin”.
Thus also, more “impersonal” than “personal” (ruling out ENFJ. The Choleric temperament exemplifies the paradox of being social or personable, yet being ultimately still “impersonal”. ENFJ is the sole exception, because of the Control area or conative NF temperament and its “motive focus” or high “want” in the area of leadership).
She was basically a “logical” person, even if not doing much stereotypical Ti “analysis” like I did (and she mocked). The Ti preference would simply mean that when making decisions, she and others like her tend to be more “impersonal” rather than personal (hence the mean streak when younger and immature, which is their adaptation of the rough environment they grew up in). This would also be “technical”, but not in the sense of mere facts for their own purpose. The impersonal judgments would be internally derived rather than based on external measures such as local efficiency.
These subjective internal judgments may include the belief that more focused (i.e. dominant) and iNtuition-colored internal judgments of others are “stupid” or weird. (The subjective nature of Ti means you might not agree with someone else’s Ti judgment.
Introverted judgment often deals in “universals”, but if such a person is so focused on the dominant Se, universal logical principles may take a back seat to taking in tangible experience. I could be wrong and she could be an ETJ, but she really did seem like an SP).
Like other STP’s, Ti “technical analysis” will be directed more to tangible things like dance steps, or for males, [the party-related technology of] sound equipment mechanics, and [the physical activity of] sportsplay moves.
Lenore Thomson mentions in her book that Ti may seem more like “instinct” than “being reasonable”, to STP’s. She even mentions, for athletes, the mind or “left brain logic” yielding to the right brain so the body can take over. (Personality Type: An Owner’s Manual, p. 288).
So while they may prefer my dominant function Ti; extraverted iNtuition, which as my auxiliary I would often go around “parenting” others with (i.e. putting forth my ponderings and interests as “ideas” I wanted others to hear), is on the other hand their last place function, associated with the Demonic Personality Complex. This archetype, being associated with the perceived destruction of the ego, should not be constellated in everyday interaction between kids. Yet, what the position means is that the function by itself is very low in their consciousness (or deep in the “shadow”), so it comes off as nonsense to them.
(In passing, I should also mention another prominent girl on the block, who was actually a play “girlfriend” when we were younger, but also like a sister, the families were close. She’s obviously a directive Thinking type, though hard to pin down exactly which type or temperament. Seems like a Melancholy, or cross between Melancholy and Choleric. INTJ is a possibility, or maybe even E ⦅seems like inbetween Phlegmatic Melancholy or Phlegmatic Choleric in Inclusion⦆, but I’m not really sure about S/N. Can talk about a lot of things, but I’m not sure if an iNtuitive, so I wonder about ISTP as well.
One evidence for that was apparent dominant Ti, with a similar “super-technical” focus as I had. Like I would use “hero” for either male or female, but she would always correct “heroine” for females. I had figured the one word covered both genders well enough. And if I said “[person A] is a lot like B…”, she would say “A is older than B, so B is like A”. She outdid me with the nerdiness!
Again, one person’s Ti will not always agree with another’s, but still, the process seems to be the same. Yet there was still something different; so I assume it might have been an Ne/Se difference. She was very girly, and as I worked at Alexander’s, she was next door at Bloomingdales doing some sort of modeling for awhile. She went on to become a Correction Officer, to everyone’s surprise, though she did develop the toughness for it.
If ISTP, and thus a Ti dom. like me; it would explain her being such an oddball like me when young, and assumed to be the perfect match. Yet the Se developing into the “directive” ST preference would help her grow into a more “normal” social image. Inasmuch as thinking she might be an N, I could be mistaking the similarity we have around Ti with N. She otherwise does seem more “concrete” focused, and sometimes like a less expressive version of the others I’m talking about).
One thing I’ve realized is that functions cannot always be identified by “archetypally-tinged symptoms” as they’ve often been described. The functions are what the archetypes (complexes) are felt through, not the other way around.
So they will respond to their “Demonic function” in others the same way they will respond to the Trickster, or any other unconscious function (including inferior Ni if undeveloped, though on the “ego-syntonic” side). Hence, the mocking.
Factoids, while technically consisting of S products, still have no real “S” practical usage, and are really apart of N-style conceptualizing. I’m building some sort of concepts with them, or pondering on “where it’s going” rather than simply “what it is”. The S aspect is from tertiary Si on my part, which as it is, is connected with a Puer (“child”) complex and not really into practicality. (So even Si-preferring SJ’s often end up getting put off by it after awhile. BTW, one big evidence the b&b owner is an Se/Ni type is her specifically not being into referencing memory as I was. The ENTJ friend was a little more into the past, but that could possibly be “left-brain alternative”. For an ESP, Si is just a “backup” to their dominant, and would probably end up more present-focused. For neither of them did it carry the emotional weight it does for me, or the more serious decision-informing it does for SJ’s).
So for these types, the presence of the T just lends itself to the [affective] directiveness, even if it doesn’t explicitly surface as a totally “analytical” Ti. As the Ti develops (and the Fe as well), they tone down their brashness and become less mocking of intellectual things. (As the person I was talking about did suddenly, in a few years, then was much more friendly. Or the other girl going into retirement in the hospitality business). They still reference internal principles in assessing matters.
I take this as further evidence that the function preference is connected to the e/w preference combinations (i.e. “type binary”).